Here is an excerpt from Quitting Church
My research suggested that people are simply not being pastored. Often ministers are out of touch with what’s happening on the ground, as they are surrounded by a wall of secretaries and voice mail. Congregants have to wait up to a month for an appointment, if they can get in at all. Once-a-week home Bible study groups lack depth and theological know-how for help with the serious problems many of us face. Many churches refer people to professional counseling that costs at least seventy-five dollars an hour. Those lucky enough to have a health plan that pays for counseling usually find the only counselors on approved HMO lists have no concept of a Christian worldview.
as quoted by Al Mohler here.
If you vote “false” then no worries, right? If you vote “true” then what steps do you take to fix it?
Hat tip to Allen James.
Usher: Deak, this guy’s onto something.
Deacon: Yep, it’s a true depiction that church is simply a “churchy theatre” and nothing more.
Usher: Wouldn’t it be easier if people just went and spoke up and called these fat lazy pastors onto the carpet?
Deacon: They can’t! They’re too afraid of being cast out by people who already hate them or simply don’t give a damn.
Usher: How ironic! Damned if you don’t speak out – Damned if you do? So my question is – Why go at all?
Hey Usher and Deacon, good to hear from you. But what if the pastor isn’t at all fat and works night and day for little result? How much responsibility do the sheep have to make sure their undershepherd is doing his job right? Is it the sheep’s job to find another flock? under what circumstances?
Just asking.
oh. and you go, because it is our job as sheep to encourage others in the flock and love them and provoke them to go further than they would without the prodding; stay straighter than they would without the prodding; get out of the ditch quicker than they would without the prodding….
you get the idea.
Usher: Deak, this response proves that the office of the pastor is doomed. The church simply throws the entire onus on the office leaving the pastor to be a jack-of-all-ministries and master-of-none.
Deacon: He doesn’t understand that the pastor is not the problem, it’s the model or the framework. It’s not what Jesus spoke about in the 1st century. It’s a mixture of pagan traditions and programatic nonsense seeking to accommodate people who want to be entertained, most of whom show no signs of true christianity at all.
Usher: Even if the pastor is not fat and lazy, he cannot work within that framework. It’s never going to work. I’ts not biblical.
Usher: And on that second comment, we never said that – though it is true, it cannot happen in the modern church where pomp and circumstance and same old sermons are the norm. People need interaction, they need to speak and they need to interact, not listen to one man’s interpretation from the pulpit that he learned in theology school from another man that learned it from another man in a corrupt theology school.
Deacon: The Gospel is a living word, something to be “acted” out in your everyday life. Not a lecture series from men who have not touch with reality as they sit around dreaming up interpretations while the rest of us work for a living. Can’t the understand that they are simply compromising for safety and convenience and in some cases idolatry worship (Hinn, Dollar, Copeland, Roberts, Robertson, Cymbala, Meyers, etc.). The office of the pastor has been one of comfort and high respect since the 3rd centurey and Constantine.
Deacon: My typing sucks….ugh – oh well, I’m just a buzzard with three fingers
Good reminder Keith ( i hope you guys are well). I actually just began reading “Quitting Church” yesterday. It’s an interesting read and much to ponder. I am discovering the reality of the threads above… ministry is about people and most importantly equipping people for the Kingdom-focused living.
Hey Allen, we be jammin’ over here. I am going to get the book and read it too. Kingdom focused sure has a nice ring to it. Jeff Mangum was en fuego today on the topic. Message will be posted here
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?i=41144090&id=252852383 Hopefully soon.
The four messages there already from Luke are all very good. He was riffing today on Luke 2:35 where Simeon promised Mary that Jesus was going to bring a sword even to her own soul. Wow! church isn’t for being comfortable. It is for God to work His will and for our hearts to beat with His, no matter what it costs.
Miss you guys. hope you are doing well over there in your new endeavor.